Speaker 1: 00:00:01 On this episode of EDGE of the Web.
Aaron Levy: 00:00:04 What’s really exciting is that’s forcing us to look at the data that we do have, our first party data and what we can manipulate and that’s the stuff that was so good for so long that we for some reason forgot about. Search and digital in a way is modern direct marketing, but we’re just now learning what made direct marketing good for the past 100 years.
Speaker 1: 00:00:25 Your weekly digital marketing trends with industry trends setting guests. You are listening and watching EDGE of the Web. Winners of best podcast from the Content Marketing Institute for 2017. Hear and see more at edgeofthewebradio.com. Now, here’s your host, Erin Sparks.
Erin Sparks: 00:00:47 All right, this is EDGE of the Web radio Episode 348. I’m your host Erin Sparks. Every week, we are bringing you amazing guests to chat about digital marketing trends and news from around the planet. We unpack a key marketing topic each and every week for our digital marketing audience. So whether you’re part of an agency, or a freelancer or part of a marketing firm or an organization that has an internal marketing firm, this show is for you. So you want to be sure to check out all the recent shows over at edgeofthewebradio.com. That’s edgeofthewebradio.com.
Erin Sparks: 00:01:18 If you’re new to the show, welcome. Thanks for joining us. If you’re listening or watching the live stream, thanks for joining us. We do this each and every Monday at 3PM. If you want to know the ropes, this is where we start with our live show, our live guests interview and then we swing around and take all of our audio to podcast iTunes, Google Play, Google Podcast, Stitcher, Spreaker iHeartRadio, Spotify, TuneIn, PlayerFM and sundry other aggregators.
Erin Sparks: 00:01:45 Along with that, we’ll take all of our content moving into the show notes as well as different transcripts as well as social media. So you can find a lot of what we’re talking about in all the different lanes of the new media consumption highway. So check out what we do over at edgeofthewebradio.com and we’re actually brought to you by a title sponsor, Site Strategics. They’re sponsor of the show, they’re pioneers in the agile digital marketing.
Erin Sparks: 00:02:11 Their focus especially is our technical SEO, search engine marketing, social media marketing and the like, content marketing as well as website development. So basically omnichannel marketing or media creation as well such as what we’re doing here on EDGE of the Web. So if you’re interested in what we can do for you, simply just give us a call over at 877 SEO for web.
Erin Sparks: 00:02:34 Have a free online, Skype or Zoom meeting and kind of unpack some of the possible changes that you can make to your digital marketing campaigns that will improve things greatly. So check us out over at sightstrategics.com or just give us a call 877-736-4932. In the quarantined studio booth, we have Jacob Mann, the studio creative director. Sir.
Jacob Mann: 00:02:59 Hello.
Erin Sparks: 00:03:00 Hello, you do look like you’re in a aquarium.
Jacob Mann: 00:03:04 If you look carefully, I can see your reflection right here. So everyone knows I’m behind glass. I’m perfectly safe over here.
Erin Sparks: 00:03:11 Perfectly safe until I walked through that door. Then you have to put on the cone of silence, you have to wear the hazmat suit.
Jacob Mann: 00:03:17 Exactly.
Erin Sparks: 00:03:18 So we did get the call from our governor today. We have a nice two week shelter at home mandate. So for everybody who’s listening or paying attention to our live stream, the live stream most likely won’t come from this studio. It looks bleak but we will be streaming and we will be bringing you a show. So stay tuned, we’ll be still giving you some great information from some great guests regularly but we just won’t be here.
Jacob Mann: 00:03:48 It’s not too late to put iPads on the chairs and do everything remote to the studio. So, never mind.
Erin Sparks: 00:03:56 We could do like remote Erin like remote Sheldon.
Jacob Mann: 00:03:59 Yes. Yes.
Erin Sparks: 00:04:01 Sheldon is going to sit right here with me.
Jacob Mann: 00:04:02 Or the drones from, I was at Amazon show about all the senators, I don’t know. House, something house. Alpha House. They had guys flying around with drones with their iPads hanging down yelling at senators-
Erin Sparks: 00:04:18 Are you serious?
Jacob Mann: 00:04:18 Yeah, it was funny, anyway.
Erin Sparks: 00:04:20 No I didn’t. Thanks for the imagery though. Certainly, we’ll queue that up for our stream queue because I think we are bingeing over at the house. Let you know who we’re going to be talking to in the upcoming shows here and this is, again, as it is as much as we can dial it in right now we may actually have to adjust a couple things, but we have Amy Bishop, the 30th next week. We have Jon Henshaw, the first week of April, April 6, and we also have Lily Ray coming back on 4/20. So if you’re interested in being part of the show, or we’d like us to actually interview somebody that you’d like to hear from, let us know. We can certainly jump in and grab a hold of their attention and get them on the show here.
Erin Sparks: 00:05:05 Just email us at firstname.lastname@example.org or hit us up on the socials. We’ll certainly pay attention to it and set your reminders on YouTube and get notified when we go live with the shows each and every Monday. All right. Lastly, as fans, we want to know a little bit about you and what you want to hear from the show. We’re running quick poll on the site. We’ve been doing it for about a month and we’re getting some great data. If you go over to edgeofthewebradio.com, just answer a couple quick questions. There’s no email requirement so you can answer anonymously and let us know what you’re interested in, in hearing more of actually in 2020.
Erin Sparks: 00:05:39 Jump on over to the site real quick, and then let us know what you think. If you like to have more dad jokes, you can also fill it in right there. We’re getting some good feedback. So chime in with the rest of our dedicated audience. All right, so that’s housekeeping. For this week, be sure to check out our news podcast. The bonus episode of each and every interview podcasts we roll through a good deal of some great articles for the show today with Aaron Levy.
Erin Sparks: 00:06:06 He had some good takes on some issues as well as talking about the most recent Google update changes. So be sure to dial that in as quickly as you can. So for all of us over the EDGE, we’re going to jump right now into talking deep dive in with this week’s featured guest.
Speaker 1: 00:06:23 Now it’s time for the edge of the web featured interview with Aaron Levy, group director at Tinuiti.
Erin Sparks: 00:06:33 So Aaron’s on the line and I appreciate Aaron hanging out there and going through our fortuitous blogs and what have you. Aaron, how you doing today, sir?
Aaron Levy: 00:06:43 I’m doing well. I said this to you when we first started but I think I can speak for the entire world where I’m really excited for an hour of human contact.
Erin Sparks: 00:06:51 Aaron hasn’t talked much in the last day here so he was eager to jump in and we’ve been shooting the proverbial, what do you call that? Can’t really do it on air, can we? Thanks for coming on board man. I am very sorry for your name spelling there. You probably could have actually found time to change it to the right spelling of Aaron.
Aaron Levy: 00:07:16 I get your name on my coffee cup all the time. I don’t know how they do this but I don’t know if you did it or told them or what.
Erin Sparks: 00:07:24 I did actually. I put an order in and ask them if there’s a special premium that you can get on the Starbucks app and then if you wouldn’t mind stalk Aaron Levy and drop my name in front of him. All right, so Aaron it’s been great getting you on board here. We certainly had Elizabeth Marsten on a couple times here on the show. Good friend of the show. You’re the group director of SEM over at Tinuiti. For those who don’t know Aaron, he’s also internationally known as a recognized speaker over at Search Engine Land, Search Engine Journal and a seven time member of PPC Heroes most influential list. Damn, that’s pretty good.
Erin Sparks: 00:08:06 In addition to his role at Tinuiti, Aaron’s also an adjunct at Drexel, and University of Vermont. Wow. As well as a student mentor at Villanova working to grow the next generation of marketers. Cool man. That’s awesome, giving back in education. You don’t see that, that much. You do see a number of influencers communicating and helping lift up the entire marketplace but you’re going back to where it really needs to start in the classrooms.
Aaron Levy: 00:08:39 Whenever I talk to digital marketers and they say oh my goodness, I have like the biggest trouble with hiring. Where do you find good people? Grow your own. It’s always baffled me and those of you that do me know me or those of you that don’t, I am not what one might consider a normal professional. I don’t take myself too seriously. I think like most of us in the industry, we love being in this industry because it’s really fun and if you think back to when you went to college or when you went to career fairs or whatever, it’s very serious and very difficult and everyone must have a straight face in a suit. So I really enjoy being, I’m going to call myself the cool professor, even though it’s probably not true, but I really enjoy doing that.
Erin Sparks: 00:09:21 Did I laugh out loud? I’m sorry.
Aaron Levy: 00:09:24 I really enjoy humanizing our work and being like, look, this is, it’s a professional industry. It’s also not a professional industry. We have a different definition of professionalism. So it’s an area where being yourself is rewarded, not punished.
Erin Sparks: 00:09:38 You’re probably getting, I mean, you’re now teaching digital natives and they probably have such a new or a fresh and intuitive mind towards digital marketing. At least you’d hope so.
Aaron Levy: 00:09:54 It’s interesting. You don’t have to remind them as much but there’s a bit of naivety in terms of how the backend works. So you think of ad targeting or all this information that pass along. Pretty recently, I was at Villanova for a case competition and the case was Facebook. The understanding of what Facebook uses and what the, “hacks” were, and whether they were actually hacks or not, or if it’s just someone skirting the rules. That sort of stuff, how the sausage is made is the more fun part to educate on.
Erin Sparks: 00:10:30 That’s interesting. I would assume that kids in college actually have a larger understanding of the marketing engine, but they certainly know how to interact with it. They certainly know when they’re being advertised too. They just don’t know all the intricacies of how to actually connect to that audience, right?
Aaron Levy: 00:10:48 Well, right and teaching digitally native students from a digital perspective, I don’t go to Vermont. I’m based in Philadelphia, and I am sure I just painted my walls to match the Vermont logo. That’s why I picked this color.
Erin Sparks: 00:11:04 Subconscious or not.
Erin Sparks: 00:11:53 I bet, I bet. Hey, did you come across, recently it was a prototype, a noise bracelet that people had. I think it was at Kickstarter. Literally, it was a number of different silent speakers or high frequency speakers, that was a disrupter around phones. If you were having a private conversation, you could literally have that and it was omni directional broadcast and it would actually create such a noise that was dampening all listening devices.
Aaron Levy: 00:12:26 It’s like a white noise machine through your body?
Erin Sparks: 00:12:27 Yeah, for your wrist, man.
Aaron Levy: 00:12:34 The future is a weird place.
Jacob Mann: 00:12:37 As I understand it, it’s like a high pitched noise that microphones pick up and have this distortion, but it isn’t something that like you would necessarily hear yourself. So it’s not like, it was like emitting all this noise. So you could turn it on and then we’d have this, so if I turn it on right now, our audience would just hear, and this really terrible sound.
Erin Sparks: 00:12:56 But we’d be able to hear each other?
Jacob Mann: 00:12:58 Well, I don’t know with the microphones and stuff but if we were standing together in a room and that was the entire thing. It’s just this mobile white noise, and, again-
Erin Sparks: 00:13:08 Cone of silence.
Jacob Mann: 00:13:08 It is the cone of silence, it actually is but I was just going back to, oh, my phone’s listening to me. Well, talking about the extreme response to that is okay, that’s white noise jewelry. That’s literally what the hell that is.
Aaron Levy: 00:13:24 I’m sure that’ll be a real thing someday. I hope by that point, I live in the mountains.
Erin Sparks: 00:13:34 I think we all want to write about now. You run a large team of over 60 SEM professionals across the country and you’re usually collectively overseeing an annual budget in the high nine figures, dude. You’re focused on strategy process and future proofing against anything that happens from the Google or Microsoft world. Tell me a little bit about your job right now and managing all these search engine marketing professionals.
Aaron Levy: 00:14:05 Oh yeah, this was definitely a scenario that we had drawn out for and we had a plan that we, no. No one saw this coming. So it’s been an interesting adventure because people who are familiar with SEM know that it’s been a huge push towards automation, machine learning, AI, whatever you want to call it, even though it’s machine learning. Obviously, all of the tools that Google and Microsoft and Facebook all have that has all these huge data sets and they say, okay, you don’t have to bid or pick keywords or whatever, we can do it. We can just look at the past data for the last 30 days or whatever. It’s been fun because the last 30 days aren’t right anymore. The last 30 days are nothing like the next 30, last 30 seconds are nothing like the next 30 anymore.
Erin Sparks: 00:14:48 Everything new, everything’s fresh, and there’s no case for this at all
Aaron Levy: 00:14:53 Right, and what it’s turned into is an interesting study. When you look at the stock market circuit breakers that are happening now, we’re like, okay, if something goes down 10%, pause for 15 minutes so we can figure out what’s going on. To a degree, most automations should have those circuit breakers in place. Volatility watches, I often call current state of machine learning that is kind of like a Roomba. It assumes everything is good, and it will drive around until it bumps into something bad and then it’ll turn hard the other way.
Aaron Levy: 00:15:27 So this is a scenario where every day is either amazing or the worst day ever, or amazing or the worst day ever. So we have really confused Roomba on our hands, which means that we have to have a lot of these circuit breakers just like you might have. Is there a huge volatility swing or something popping or dropping or if it is happening, what do we do about it? Do we just tolerate it because that’s the way the world works and demand is dictating it, or do we take a manual action to say, we’re going to turn it off or we’re going to drive the boat for now because we’re better at steering in waves till you see more waves or whatever it may be.
Erin Sparks: 00:16:06 We’re really talking about is also, we got a Roomba that’s confused that’s like a Mad Max Roomba. It’s got some sharp points to it right now.
Aaron Levy: 00:16:15 Yeah, it does. Things can swing high or low. The other thing that’s interesting, given the phase that we’re in now, or frankly, any crisis is, the things that are popular now, or the tests that are going to work now or the things that are going to look good for your brand now, are not the same as they were last month, and they’re not the same as they were next month. So an interesting thing to think about is day parting, how people search throughout the day or the week, right? There’s no such thing as weekends anymore and depending on who you are, there’s no lunch rush, there’s no evening rush. There’s no killing time as you get home.
Aaron Levy: 00:16:50 It’s all going to flatten out. So all these assumptions and all these years and years of data that we’ve had to design our strategies are out the window, at least temporarily. I mean, we’ll see what happens when the world shakes out and recovers itself, but I always like the old Simon Pegg, Nick Frost movie, Shaun of the Dead. We’re going to go to the Winchester, we’re going to have a pint. And we’re going to wait for this all to blow over. Only the Winchester is my living room, or the next.
Erin Sparks: 00:17:24 Aaron you got some red on you. That’s awesome. I don’t think I’ve had a better quote for what we’re going through right now. That’s awesome. So I want to get into some of the insights of automation that we’ve been talking about and how to actually, how automation can help in this period, but before we get there, before this happened, can you give me some perspectives of what you’ve been seeing inside of search engine marketing, or what has been changing an ad words, key elements that maybe provided some huge value to clients that are now moved, I guess sometimes to look at this, comparatively. So what was happening earlier in 2020, that was notable in SEM?
Aaron Levy: 00:18:17 So all the major platforms are taking the same-ish route where this is an over-dramatization of it, but give us your credit card and your goals and we’ll do everything else. And it’s it. Again, that’s an overstatement, but it’s the loose direction of where things are going that, there’s a lot, Google has a ton more signals that they either don’t make available to us or it becomes a resource problem of quite literally your computer might set on fire if you try to operate on all of them.
Aaron Levy: 00:18:46 Or these all these decisions that wind up stalking, so a lot of Google’s automation or Microsoft or Facebook or frankly anyone, I think all of us thought it was a bit shoved down our throats in 2018, 2019, and this year, it’s good. It’s doing really well. So even while we’re in this crazy time, we have some clients that are doing really well. Some clients are doing really poorly. Some are doubling our budgets, some are pausing.
Aaron Levy: 00:19:19 What we have seen, which has been a bit surprising, is some of Google’s pure automation, like smart bidding, has been reacting the way that we hoped it would react. Now, our clients tend to skew bigger so they have more data faster, but depending what was happening, it’s keeping up. Most of the days, the highs and the lows, actually kind of feel like the fourth quarter for a retail client, where every day is predictable, but it’s not predictable.
Aaron Levy: 00:19:49 So we generally know what products are going to be hot, but maybe there’s a news report about a crisis that, oh, no, the whole world is running out of left socks. So all of a sudden our left socks spike. We have a lot of food delivery clients or food type clients and that sort of volatility is a lot more expected but then [inaudible 00:20:10] stuff. What we’ve been seeing is that Google is actually keeping up on an intraday perspective but some of it is still a little bit delayed.
Aaron Levy: 00:20:20 We’ve talked a bit about how tomorrow is not the same as yesterday, and it’s not even going to be close. So it’s playing catch up on a day to day basis but we’re just having to put firmer guardrails around Mr. Roomba to make sure that he doesn’t run too far when it does go weird.
Erin Sparks: 00:20:36 Well, we were aware of some introductions of AI and machine learning in bid management and ad management and even some automation in the visual ad creation side of things. We’ve been fast tracked into that space. Is that safe to say, is that we’re now in a space where we’re having a that automation, which we were a little bit guarded about, in the last year, we were having a number of conversations regarding the new tools that were becoming available in Facebook and AdWords explicitly. All of a sudden now we’re here and we’re using them to a much greater degree than we really intended to. Is that correct?
Aaron Levy: 00:21:25 I’d agree with that. The thing to think of, especially in the current state, but for automation in general, whenever especially as it pertains to personalization or customization or any other ation, but look at an ad when it goes wrong. When the ad goes wrong, is that still okay? So a good example would be an email vendor or frankly a Google ad that, they use different creative for guys and girls. The males get pizza and beer and the girls get fancy food and wine. If I get shown a picture of fancy food and wine, that’s not that bad. That’s okay.
Erin Sparks: 00:22:04 I particularly like fancy food and wine.
Aaron Levy: 00:22:07 I like fancy food and wine and I also like pizza and beer. So both ones are okay, but now we’re in an era where we have a responsive search ads or where we have all these different headlines shuffle around. If those headlines get shuffled around, now they’re more at risk to be misinterpreted. A good example that I just saw this morning as I was calling a plumber because I have a swimming pool in my basement right now. Happy quarantine.
Aaron Levy: 00:22:41 What we saw is that some of the ads, say, make an appointment or schedule your consultation. You can’t do that right now and you can’t expect to do it for a while and stuff like that, especially when it’s automation, we’re like, okay, Google is just going to figure it out. You have to give them the right tools to use and, just triggered my [inaudible 00:23:03].
Erin Sparks: 00:23:07 Use your bracelet man.
Aaron Levy: 00:23:12 There’s a couple of them in here. One second
Erin Sparks: 00:23:18 Exactly. See, Google should know. Google should know that Aaron is on a podcast right now.
Aaron Levy: 00:23:26 Believe it or not, that’s actually happened before but it’s usually with an echo not with the Google nasty thing.
Erin Sparks: 00:23:33 That’s awesome. We have to give better guidance and challenges is that are we as marketers nuanced enough or aware enough, contextually that things have changed in order to be able to give that additional nudge to the roombas and say nope, don’t go over here anymore.
Aaron Levy: 00:23:50 Well, right. There’s a lot of interesting things too, like you read all the horror stories about people stockpiling hand sanitizer or price gouging or whatever or all the masks that have been bought and hoarded, and then resold. So in those sorts of scenarios, platforms can’t rely on their own AI, their own automation to make those decisions fast enough. So now at this point, Google is basically banning or disapproving, not banning, but disapproving any ad that has anything to do with a mask of any kind. So know if you’re buying a lion mask for some reason, because you want to look cool on Zoom, you might not be able to see an ad for it but again, that’s the sort of thing where it’s not a scenario that I think automation is ready for. So we’ll just block it.
Erin Sparks: 00:24:37 Well, there’s no way to anticipate things like this and you have to have the human element in there. Some of those major dampening executions come with a huge cost. You’re damaging a lot of businesses by having that circuit breaker, for lack of a better description.
Aaron Levy: 00:24:59 Right. Again, it’s about having a trigger. It’s about having an understanding of what level of freedom is okay. How much are you willing to lose? How much are you okay with going wrong at the potential of what could go right. It’s just making sure that you protect the downside or protect things that could go wrong so that if they do go wrong, they’re like, it’s a little wrong. Like when Aaron triggers his nest interview versus if my internet went out, there would be a different story.
Erin Sparks: 00:25:28 Yeah, we wouldn’t want that to happen. All right, so let me ask you this here, as you’re witnessing and certainly you’re in the space where and predominantly you’re working in search engine marketing and display marketing across multiple platforms, but there are certainly decisions being made by organizations on what they’re going to invest in right now from a marketing strategy because SEO, we know is a long play as opposed to a short play in the SEM space. Have you witnessed, maybe not by your own client decisions but other conversations in the marketing space where SEO is starting to be downplayed in light of the much more volatile and shifting sands of SEM? It’s a good deal more controllable right now in this space, then the SEO play, yeah?
Aaron Levy: 00:26:23 That’s a good question. So I can see this, it’s a seesaw a little bit. So SEM has the flexibility from a marketing perspective, because we can turn it on and off in a hot second, we can change our strategies in a second. At the same time, in these times of crisis, where to a degree SEM is also a water faucet, if you turn it off, there’s no more water coming out. So obviously, we can, sure I’ll stick with this metaphor.
Aaron Levy: 00:26:48 I can spend all this time making a better faucet so we are ready to turn it back on it flows better, or which at that point, you’re kind of talking in the same strategy that SEO goes for it, where it’s a longer play. So it’s a good investment to make in a time like this. Because, you know it’s going to take a while to get the effects, you know that a lot of the effects are right even if you don’t see results right away.
Aaron Levy: 00:27:12 So it’s time to invest as a marketer in those really longer term strategies and from an SEM perspective, this is a good time to rebuild your account, if you’re paused or a good time to reevaluate all of your tests that you had forever or good time to do all of your oil changes at once that you’ve been waiting for in a while. Deferred maintenance, if you will, it’s a good time to take care of all of that.
Aaron Levy: 00:27:39 Then if you’re a larger scale retailer or a business company or something that just maybe struggling a little bit, this is the time where you should really look at customers. We’re seeing a lot of our customers, as I mentioned a bit before, instead of customer acquisition because any customer you acquire now is just one panicking, or they might be panicking, or it’s not your normal customer.
Aaron Levy: 00:28:03 So in turn, what we’re going to wind up doing is seeing a lot of who is your best customer? How do you keep them? How do you communicate with them? What do you do if they’re searching for something that you sell? Do you push it hard or do you just sort of acknowledge that you’re there? It’s complicated time.
Erin Sparks: 00:28:21 No, it is a complicated time and that’s that’s a huge challenge. It’s not only about what medium or what tactic you’re going to utilize, but also, knowing what you have to change contextually with that tactic and how you actually even measure success. That’s where you’re really going for here is conversions aren’t conversions that were 45 days ago. We’re in a whole new space. So it’s not only, yeah, you actually have to have a better relationship with your customer, but on top of it, you also have to now start looking at different behaviors of customers, that it’s not that conversion funnel that we were used to that lead gen is the key goal, we’re actually now looking at much more different types of behavior. You have to look at a further out lens to actually put against the different KPIs as opposed to being held to the almighty transaction, right?
Aaron Levy: 00:29:21 Right. Right. Well, I think that’s a direction that the broader web is moving to when we think about analytics as a whole is that it’s, if you treat things as a transactional relationship, you’re not going to last forever. So you have to look at what are you going to do with that customer once you get them? How are you going to treat them, how you’re going to talk to them, how long are they going to stick around?
Aaron Levy: 00:29:43 Us being search people, either SEO or PID are in an interesting spot because search is an upper to mid funnel in most cases and lower funnel for branded terms and stuff like that. If you think about it, we In a spot where something happens that makes people search, then all of our searches stuff happens. Then their customer and then we get them back through some other channels. We sort of occupy this space in the middle where again, when we’re in a time of crisis like now, if people are searching, it is almost, it’s not normal.
Aaron Levy: 00:30:22 It’s likely due to desperation, boredom, or finally getting around to something because they have the time to look into it. Thinking about where it fits in relative to what happens afterwards and what you do with that person after that transaction does happen. If you choose to keep them, if you choose to let them go, whatever it may be, it’s there are different strategies that we’re going to have to take.
Erin Sparks: 00:30:46 Okay, well with that, how in the world do we know what foot to lead with right now? It gets back to the core element of utilizing automation in time of crisis. What can we rely on in this because if the world is changing so much, and the consumer is changing, behaviors have not been predictable, or the new predictable is different than the old predictable, and you just threw in so many different behaviors of bored behavior as opposed to intent. I mean, literally traipsing around and just spending more time in the YouTube channels. That’s literally what’s happening right now. So our data is all off on how to actually track efficiently, effectively. So how do we use automation to be able to help clear that haze that we’re now experiencing?
Aaron Levy: 00:31:41 So to a degree you have to trust what you came up with before. We’ve been through a few basket analyses or term analyses of, okay, if a person searches on X, they wind up being a customer that’s worth three times normal. If they wind up searching on Y, they wind being a customer that’s half as valuable as normal. Even now in our times of randomness or our times of change or our times of temporary closures, that probably isn’t going to change. So what you can do is you can trust some of the automation signals that you’ve set up already but just knowing how they can go wrong, and again, how wrong you’re willing to let them go.
Aaron Levy: 00:32:21 So you can still trust everything that you set up before, but what you have to do is make sure that you trust your fail safes. Because I think that’s the biggest challenge just like how, there’s some of these add assumptions that we set in place forever ago. We likely set our fail safes a while ago too, because they’ve never happened. Our fail safe is never triggered. So it’s a good time now to double check and make sure where your fail safes are, so when we do trigger it’s okay.
Erin Sparks: 00:32:46 For our listeners give us an example of a fail safe when it comes down to some marketing automation.
Aaron Levy: 00:32:52 Okay, say campaigns impressions double or drop. Drop by 50% over the course of a day. Normally we’d look a little bit longer time period but given how quick it was like, okay, if your impressions dropped by more than half over a day, odds are something in your campaign got flagged or volume spiked or dropped. The other thing to think of is, since most of Google’s smart bidding is primarily based on predicted conversion rate, we might set an alert, which we normally wouldn’t do, but set an alert for big conversion rate spikes, because that likely means that whatever product you’re selling, or whatever product got picked up, it probably got pushed out in some sort of a viral sense and got picked up by a ton of people. So that little flash in the pan is just going to be that, it’ll be a flash in the pan.
Erin Sparks: 00:33:44 So you’re really, go ahead. Keep on going.
Aaron Levy: 00:33:46 So making sure that smart bidding doesn’t take yesterday and say, hey, we got a 15% conversion rate, we’re going to bid like we’re going to have 15% conversion rate forever, putting a block of that in place,
Erin Sparks: 00:33:57 Much more standing vigil on these numbers than ever before. If you’re seeing these type of behaviors don’t allow the smart bidding to actually take those full instructions and march that way because things are so volatile and I hate using that word over and over again, but things are changing and contextually, day to day things are changing that could actually spin your marketing campaign out if you have an unchecked automation system. Is that what you’re saying?
Aaron Levy: 00:34:28 Exactly. The machines are really good at doing what we tell them to do. We just have to make sure that we’re telling them the right thing on every given day.
Erin Sparks: 00:34:36 Absolutely. So let me ask you another question here, not only about fail safes and reading the dials more frequently and with a new intent, but for marketers or for companies that are not paying attention to how their ad reads or displays in this particular moment in time, it could very well be construed as tone deaf if you’re not addressing your graphics, your contextual messages. You got to have that internal knowledge of how it could be construed right now.
Aaron Levy: 00:35:12 Right, exactly. I’ll cite two examples of it. So I saw, I’m not normally a Facebook person, but I’ve spent a ton of time on Facebook, which I don’t know if this is a good behavior to get when you’re isolated but-
Erin Sparks: 00:35:26 We’ll have a detox later.
Aaron Levy: 00:35:29 Anywho, I saw an ad for a storage company, and it was just like their stock ad. Like it was an ad that was fine. Out of curiosity, I just sort of poked into the comments and every single comment was someone who was raging about how can you even advertise in a time like this? Why are you around? Oh my goodness, like there’s all these kids who are students and are looking for a place to live and you’re advertising them. Just get in front of it. I’m not saying that you have to take a strong stand one way or the other, but in that particular case, say we’re still available.
Aaron Levy: 00:35:58 We have these special services if you want, it might take us a little while to get back. There were some emails that I’ve gotten from some fun brands are having relatively on brand take on it but an email or an ad where it’s, we have stuff in stock. It’s going to take a while to get to you, if you’re okay, we’d love to have your order regardless. Something like that, but just getting ahead of it and putting a stake into what you want your brand to read us and just stand there. The thing that could, to do that is wrong is just keep doing what you’re doing.
Erin Sparks: 00:36:35 Sticking your head in the sand and thinking that there’s no change to your marketing, no change to your, and literally, we’re in a space where you could really upset people if you have an inadvertent claim or inadvertent joviality in a very serious scenario. You got to know where your ads are being delivered but you also have to put yourself in the shoes of the recipient. Does this pass muster during this particular period of time, right?
Aaron Levy: 00:37:03 Well, right. That’s why we’re getting a million and one emails about here’s how [Marin 00:37:09] sock company is reacting to COVID-19 or, again, whatever. That’s sort of the sledgehammer approach, but there’s a million and one brand messages out there and people don’t often think of search as a brand message, but realistically it is. So when people are searching for your company, the telecommunication space has been really interesting to watch.
Aaron Levy: 00:37:32 If you’re searching for Zoom versus RingCentral, versus UberConference, and just seeing the messages they’re putting out there. Some maybe dance around virtue signaling a little bit too much. Some are maybe a little bit tone deaf, some are not but it’s important to have other people read your ads. So again, in the spirit of us being socially isolated, so I can’t exactly yell to my back door neighbor. Actually, I probably could. I live in a row house, she’s right there.
Erin Sparks: 00:38:02 Hey, get her on the show, let’s go.
Aaron Levy: 00:38:06 But have someone read them who is not in the industry. That would be my advice, see how they read to a, “common person.” The other thing that I would wholly recommend is this is a time when frequency capping will come into place. So there’s a certain clothing brand that I won’t call out, but it’s very major one. I’ve seen the same commercial, I counted, I saw it 26 times yesterday, which goes to show just how many YouTube videos I watched, just a lot of them, but media consumption habits are going to be very, very, very, very, very different for foreseeable future.
Aaron Levy: 00:38:42 So you can come off as tone deaf, again, by being repetitive or by just sort of being there that much. So you have to check in on all these things and making sure that you’re in front of the right content as well. YouTube or Display or [inaudible 00:38:58] there’s a lot of content out there that is all about COVID that might be a race to get the right message across and that message turns out to be wrong and your ads serve next to this piece of content and maybe the Philadelphia Inquirer was a great place to have your ads before, but maybe now you’d prefer to just like, we’re not going to be there.
Erin Sparks: 00:39:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that’s a whole another side of the equation here is now filtering to a much greater degree where you thought was safe space in the news space, but actually having your ad right next to some pretty dire content, boy, that you have a whole nother level of a brand association that you may want to steer clear of, right?
Aaron Levy: 00:39:41 Well, right. I mean, think about your own site and the messaging that you put across. Almost everybody has a banner or page or a pop up or something that showcases, here’s what we’re doing. Here’s how we’re reacting, whatever. Is that page getting indexed? Is that page crawled by dynamic search ads? Probably. So making sure that those areas where there’s a piece of information that is meant for people who get here, but it is not meant to be pushed out into the world.
Aaron Levy: 00:40:14 Making sure that you have protections for that and make a decision on things like, I’ll call them questions. So think about NordicTrack. A ton of people are working out at home now because they have to, or not, as the case may be for myself. So look, if you’re NordicTrack, and people search for, will NordicTrack deliver during the coronavirus, you should probably have an answer to that. In the world of search automation, you’re going to show for that query regardless. So again, getting ahead of automation and maybe giving it some new guardrails and pointing out like here’s what we do, want people to see, if they ask about it. If they don’t, here’s the other thing.
Erin Sparks: 00:41:01 Yep, absolutely. So you just got to know where your ads are being moved into, what new spaces are and you can’t guarantee everything in the automation space but you certainly can put some internalized breakers on distribution and just have to have that level of care now, not care, carefulness, that maybe you didn’t think through setting up these different campaigns that wasn’t necessary at the time. Any final thoughts on the realm of automation in a time of crisis because it does have a bit of an antithetical relationship is that automation is to be able to move on singular or somewhat similar messaging and if you’re in an environment that is changing so much so quickly, it does challenge the efficacy of an automated campaign. You’re telling us that there’s some good [inaudible 00:42:05] that you can put in place. Any final thoughts in that space of guidance for our listeners who are running automation campaigns, perhaps very complex ones that they put together for their clients and it could very well be looked on as quite daunting having to look at it with fresh new eyes there?
Aaron Levy: 00:42:24 Yeah, this is, in both ways this is a time that we’ve never been in before. But if you step back and look at it as just binary, is this going to perform well or not, there are periods that were like this. There are periods that have dynamic swings day over day and there are inventory issues. I pointed to holiday for retail and frankly, the end of a quarter for most B2B companies tends to look a little wacky, too. So odds are the automation that you have running now or we’re running recently is not new.
Aaron Levy: 00:42:57 Odds are that it has been running a while so If you want to know how well you can trust it, or how little you can trust it, look at those times when things were extremely volatile before. Look at that time that you had a stock issue, look at that time that it was Black Friday and your best product sold out or you’re the only one who had the right [inaudible 00:43:15] for a given year. Who knows, but look at these extremely volatile periods and see what automation did.
Aaron Levy: 00:43:22 If it reacted, okay, then it’s still going to react okay now, but if you take a look at it and see that, oh, it panicked, or oh boy like this is going to be looking way too long. Either turn it off or set better guardrails and as we go forward, and we emerge from whatever this crisis is, this pandemic, you’re going to have to give your automation some time to relearn. So when we find a new normal, it’s going to have to learn what normal is.
Erin Sparks: 00:43:56 You’re going to have a reset it back too is that, there will be a place where this is not an issue, guys, and I got to have faith that it’s going to pass and hopefully, in quick order. The fact of the matter is you also have to be able to reset this because you got to straighten out your delivery to be able to make most of your automation tools as well. So just be a better shepherd for how you’re managing your automation platforms, I think is probably the best lesson learned here and you should be in that space all the time, shouldn’t you?
Aaron Levy: 00:44:32 Exactly, exactly. We automation isn’t a silver bullet. I love it. I often call myself the laziest search marketer in the world, not because I’m truly lazy but because I work really hard to not work very hard, as if there’s a button that has to be pushed 1000 times. I don’t want to push it 1000 times. So let’s find someone that can do that. Again this era where the button changes every day, you just have to figure out if the machine is capable of catching up and sometimes that means staring at it, scoreboard watching. Other times it means comparing it to a period in crisis or a period of weird behavior.
Erin Sparks: 00:45:13 Get some additional third party insight because you can also stare right at something and not realize, while you’re staring at it, you got to have a little bit of additional consult with your peers. The last thing I wanted to talk about here Aaron, and I appreciate your time today was management of an SEM team. You have a fleet of SEM professionals and most of them are at home right now. They should actually be watching your show right now. That’s where they should be.
Aaron Levy: 00:45:42 No, they shouldn’t. They should be doing work.
Erin Sparks: 00:45:45 Well, instead of a multi discipline agency, even in the digital space [inaudible 00:45:50] specializes in search marketing, what difficulties have you experienced during your management time with that specific set of skills inside of search marketing, something unique probably than most agencies have experienced?
Aaron Levy: 00:46:07 Well, we’ve evolved into a full service agency now. So a bigger challenge that we’re having is connecting all the dots together, which is hard because there’s no standing up and talking to your desk neighbor. What we’ve really strived to do is to maintain randomness. So there’s all these tips about setting up your office, having a nice comfy chair, having a room that you can work in comfortably, but something that you can’t really replicate as the water cooler talks, the conversations, the body language reading, things like that.
Aaron Levy: 00:46:40 So I do my best as a manager to maintain that randomness and I have a team of my size, I don’t talk to every person every day. I don’t talk to every person every week, but I try to make sure to roll through the cycle and make sure that I’m keeping in touch with everybody and making sure that I can get a feel for what I would get from looking at someone and get a feel for how they’re doing, get a feel for what they’re working on, getting a feel if they’re excited or not.
Aaron Levy: 00:47:06 In terms of managing them as an SEM team, it’s 65, great SEM. I don’t have to watch over their shoulders, they’re fine. They know what to do. I’m sure most of the listeners on this as well are much the same way that like I don’t have to tell people to turn on, I don’t have to tell people to turn off. Making sure that people are sharing what they’re doing, making sure that we don’t have, it’s not good enough. It’s not as cool as what this person did. Making sure that communication is fostered and encouraged is the key to a longer growth of a bigger team, particularly with regards to working remote.
Erin Sparks: 00:47:46 Absolutely, that’s a great perspective. What would you say to some of the businesses that are finding themselves in the remote space now? From a management standpoint, you already started to go that route. For a manager who’s about to get into remote, in fact, we’re about to go into remote setting over here at site. So give me some guidance on how do we lift up individuals, whenever they’re now in their home environment? There are so many other triggers, distraction in that space, how do we help them prosper in those environments?
Aaron Levy: 00:48:25 So my recommendation for everyone on that is to set boundaries and keep them and communicate them and I mean that both internally and externally. Think of the things that you would do in your normal work life. Do you eat lunch at your desk, or do you go to a kitchen or do you go to a restaurant. Whatever that is, do it now. Me personally, it’s been go down and eat in the kitchen. I have bought a giant indoor putting green because what else I’m going to do? So I go and hit some putts.
Aaron Levy: 00:48:59 Same token with understanding what those boundaries are, especially for those who are newly working from home without daycare or working from home with a noisy spouse or if it’s three roommates who live in a two bedroom house. Sometimes that may mean that your work hours are different. In our industry, and in most industries, that’s totally okay. It doesn’t really matter if you work at noon or midnight, but what you do have to do is you have to communicate those expectations out to everybody, and everybody has to stick to them and respect them.
Aaron Levy: 00:49:30 So if we have a few team members that they share daycare duty with their spouse, so, okay, Lauren might work from nine to noon, and then from six to 10 and then she’s off from noon to six. So myself as a manager, I need to make sure that she sticks to that and I have to stick to it as well. So, you didn’t respond to my slack. So I texted you. Yeah, that’s because I got four kids over here that are really bored. So making sure that you keep all of that and keep expectations super clear. Otherwise, people are just going to sit at their computer and stare and wonder what to do.
Erin Sparks: 00:50:08 There’s a whole nother level of potential depression in that space if morale is not supported and there is something to be said about being in the office with your team and reading body language and being able to literally give the attaboy, but this is a challenging environment for a lot of organizations and managers that don’t know how to do that. So do you know any blogs or resources out there that you can help point customers to or I should say companies do, that need a little bit of assistance there and this was spur of the moment so don’t worry if you don’t have anything right at the top of the list.
Aaron Levy: 00:50:47 Well, there has been no, it’s a blessing and a curse because there are now 10 million, how to work remote resources nine 9,000,999, 997 of them are the same. There was one that was posted on Harvard Business Review pretty recently that was, they’ve had a couple of good series as they always do. I wrote a post that we talked about internally about trying to, not necessarily about the work from home thing and get your own office and whatever, but how do you preserve mental health for your own routine communication with your peers, friends.
Aaron Levy: 00:51:29 So I have a post that’s centered around that, but generally speaking, most of the business leaders that you follow are, they’re writing good stuff now just from a different mindset. I think the other thing that is, the last thing is that maybe is a bit of a remote blocker is that once everyone gets settled in and gets used to it, at least in our industry, it’s the same. You’re losing some of the randomness, but in this current state, you wouldn’t have a lot of randomness anyway because people would just be talking about same thing, but it’s not that different. So we don’t have to talk about it like it’s revolutionizing work. It’s the same. It’s just from a different location.
Erin Sparks: 00:52:16 Yeah, for the most part for all of us in the knowledge industry, the same dashboards are there. It’s got to work and it’s not like you’re changing vocations and all of a sudden, you have to do something completely different in that space. It’s just the discipline of knowing how to discipline yourself and making sure that you do have your boundaries and distraction is limited as much as possible.
Aaron Levy: 00:52:40 I will give one last point on that of the, “welcome distractions.” How many times do you sit at the same chair for nine hours a day?
Erin Sparks: 00:52:47 You’d be surprised. I sit at a chair for a long ass time.
Aaron Levy: 00:52:53 Right, but do you stand up and go to a conference room or do you go to, again, go to get a coffee, whatever it may be?
Erin Sparks: 00:52:59 Yep.
Aaron Levy: 00:53:00 I’ve personally found a lot of success and manipulating in the same way. I obviously know like, oh, you have to set up a workspace and only work from there. Yeah, but I have a couple of those. So like my kitchen is a conference room, my dining room is a conference room, my guest bedroom is a conference room. So the whole change of scenery or the feel of moving to a different location in the office, don’t be shy about replicating that for yourself. It can save you a lot of headspace.
Erin Sparks: 00:53:25 Don’t have the Zoom session in the bathroom. Okay, people? There are limits to everything and there’s one right there.
Aaron Levy: 00:53:31 Depends on the art that you have. You never know.
Erin Sparks: 00:53:37 Okay. See, I’m just going to step away from that digital. Wow. All right. So, Aaron, we really appreciate your time today. Can you tell me what bugs you and your industry right now?
Aaron Levy: 00:53:52 Oh, boy.
Erin Sparks: 00:53:54 In 30 words or less.
Aaron Levy: 00:53:57 What bugs me in our industry is sort of the same thing about in general, is that a ton of generalizations and a ton of everything’s black and white. It’s either amazing or terrible. What I would say is, especially when it comes to automation, and all these bid tools, is the old, I forget who it was. But if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. I think we’re kind of on the opposite side of this where we have nails and we keep on going to the same hammer.
Aaron Levy: 00:54:30 There’s a lot of stuff out there that you can use and there’s a lot of nuances and all these tools are tremendously powerful. There’s no, what’s a good benchmark for x, y, and z? I don’t know, man, because your company is different from every other one. So looking into how the sausage is made, looking into how a tool works, looking into what elements of it will serve your purpose.
Aaron Levy: 00:54:54 Understanding what the machine actually does, I think is something that is vanishing a bit from our industry and instead, we look at tool and tool says it does this. So we make tool do that and it did that, but there’s more to it than that. So I often say that my greatest asset is probably curiosity and this is a particular case where it goes well. So I think the more of our industry can understand the nuances, all these super crazy powerful tools, and not just look at it being a nail and you have a hammer to hit it with. Understanding the nuances are what’s going to propel us forward.
Erin Sparks: 00:55:30 Hey, it’s time to educate ourselves in the areas that maybe we just had postponed for a good deal on, and you’re right. These tools are fantastic, and it’s a shame that we can be somewhat linear in our thinking of what the analysis is that’s being provided to us. So well, conversely, what excites you about your industry right now?
Aaron Levy: 00:55:52 The same thing a different way.
Erin Sparks: 00:55:55 Well, you are a lazy marketer.
Aaron Levy: 00:55:58 I only pick one thing to talk about and that is it. No, I think a lot of those bad habits that we built over the course of 10, 15 years that I talked about before that looking at a conversion as a transactional relationship, or the end all be all of behavior. I think that we’re moving a good deal past that, obviously, the future with cookie challenges and tracking challenges, everyone having their own gardens that no one can can play in. What’s really exciting is that’s forcing us to look at the data that we do have, our first party data and what we can manipulate and that’s the stuff that was so good for so long that we for some reason forgot about.
Aaron Levy: 00:56:38 Search and digital in a way is modern direct marketing, but we’re just now learning what made direct marketing good for the past 100 years. So I think us getting really good at that and looking again, beyond a transactional relationship and understanding people a lot more will help us all become better marketers and will hopefully make the internet a better place.
Erin Sparks: 00:56:58 Very good. Very good. All right, well what is it like cooking for a sitting Prime Minister?
Aaron Levy: 00:57:07 That was a weird adventure because Secret Service had to watch me make all the food. I grew up in Ithaca, New York which is right by Cornell and so it was the Prime Minister of Uganda was there for his child’s graduation. There were four or five Secret Service cars and someone watching me make the salad. Just strange adventure.
Erin Sparks: 00:57:30 Nothing creepy.
Aaron Levy: 00:57:34 I was surprised they didn’t ask to taste it, but I guess they trust us.
Erin Sparks: 00:57:37 Well, you could have thrown over a loop and started throwing a bunch of wild peppers in there and trust me, it’s going to be good. It’s going to be good.
Jacob Mann: 00:57:46 Well, it’s making me ask questions now like, so does someone go to culinary school just to work for the Secret Service? Because I mean, if I was watching you cook, I wouldn’t know.
Aaron Levy: 00:57:56 That begs the question like, do Secret Service guys know how to do everything and they just make sure they’re doing it right. I don’t know, or was the guy just standing there and making sure I didn’t put a razor blade in the candy or Halloween tales.
Jacob Mann: 00:58:06 He was looking for a bottle with the saw and the crossbones on it. He didn’t see that so he was fine.
Aaron Levy: 00:58:12 Just like a giant jug labeled poison.
Erin Sparks: 00:58:16 Exactly. As long as it’s not there. Oh, wow, that’s funny. All right, I want to make sure that we lift up Tinuiti. Give us commercial about Tinuiti.
Aaron Levy: 00:58:24 So we are aiming to be your go to for the triopoly. So Google and Microsoft for search, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn for social and all things Amazon. So I started working for, at the time was Legacy SEM a long time ago and since then, we’ve merged with our peers for all the different industries. So we like to say that our goal is to grow businesses, not just an individual customer, our tagline is happy to grow you. So a lot of what I just talked about, what excites me about the future of the web is what excites me about the future of Tinuiti. Where we’re looking at people, we’re looking at customer lifetime value, we’re looking at big data analytics, and then deploying it individual channels where they fit in the customer journey.
Erin Sparks: 00:59:16 You got a fleet of SEMs to be able to help you there as well. All right, so you’re going to be speaking at Hero Conference in Austin April, we hope.
Aaron Levy: 00:59:26 No.
Erin Sparks: 00:59:26 No, okay.
Aaron Levy: 00:59:28 No more April. I’ll be speaking at Hero Conf sometime. We don’t know when it’s going to be.
Erin Sparks: 00:59:33 Any thoughts about that? I mean, it’s just tearing apart all these conferences, obviously. So wish them all the best and be able to recover from this.
Aaron Levy: 00:59:43 It’s going to be an interesting adventure. A lot of people are trying a lot of different things. I mean, those of you who have been to a lot of conferences, there’s value in the speeches and what people have to say, but that’s not all value. All the value comes in the relationships that you build and the people that you talk to, and having a squad to bounce ideas off of, conversations at lunch. So I think it was [inaudible 01:00:05] who did, set up a remote conference.
Aaron Levy: 01:00:08 I think that the people at Hero and my friends of the Paid Search Association were working on something as well. Trying to figure out again, how to replicate the randomness, the bumping into the Q&A, the water cooler conversations. That’s the hard part. Presenting a webcast isn’t that hard but I also don’t think that’s the only problem we have to solve for.
Erin Sparks: 01:00:28 That’s true.
Aaron Levy: 01:00:29 We got to get a whole bunch of people excited again, because that’s the whole point of these conferences.
Erin Sparks: 01:00:32 Absolutely. Absolutely. So we wish you all the best in the future, and we’ll certainly watch from afar and if we can get you back on the show in the future, we’d certainly love to have you because you’re a fun guy and you’re certainly well versed in this space and good luck managing 60 odd SEMs. That’s data galore, but man, there’s probably a lot of introverts in that space, right?
Aaron Levy: 01:00:58 I don’t manage, we like to say that we’re an upside down pyramid. So I support the team of 60 odd, there are some introverts, but again, when we’re thinking of a management perspective, that’s my job to know who they are and to reach out to them because I know they won’t reach out to me.
Erin Sparks: 01:01:13 Got it. All right, so we certainly want our audience to follow you on Twitter. That’s big A, little A.
Aaron Levy: 01:01:21 Big A, little A, the way that you’re supposed to spell Aaron.
Erin Sparks: 01:01:30 You did that. Cut-
Aaron Levy: 01:01:34 You set them up, I knock them down.
Erin Sparks: 01:01:37 LinkedIn account, the Aaron Levy. Instagram, theaaronlevy and tell you what, this will not go unchecked.
Aaron Levy: 01:01:47 I just started a war.
Erin Sparks: 01:01:48 Yeah, you see that game. Me and Jacob we’re talking DC against Marvel and we’re always there. You did it, man. You did it. All right. Game on. Final Thoughts on automation for you sir.
Aaron Levy: 01:02:02 It’s a tremendously powerful tool or a tremendously powerful suite of tools. It’s an amplifier. That means that it makes the good better, but it also means it can make the bad worse.
Erin Sparks: 01:02:11 Amen.
Aaron Levy: 01:02:12 So you have to understand how it works and what it can do and what the potential pitfalls are, in addition to the good things that could happen.
Erin Sparks: 01:02:18 Very good. All right. From all of us, thanks so much, Aaron and we’ll be certainly watching from afar and trying to graffiti, the big E over everything that you do. Appreciate it sir.
Aaron Levy: 01:02:30 Thank you so much for having me.
Erin Sparks: 01:02:31 Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Please don’t forget to like and subscribe to EDGE of the Web on YouTube and if you’re really feeling it, up to it today, drop over for a quick review over on iTunes, we would certainly appreciate it. We certainly appreciate all the well wishes and feedback that we get from our listeners. Be sure to check out all the must see videos and much more over at edgeofthewebradio.com.
Erin Sparks: 01:02:53 That’s edgeofthewebradio.com and next week, we are certain I think to a particular degree that we’re going to be having Amy Bishop, but stay tuned and you’ll certainly be updated if that changes. From all of us over at EDGE of the Web stay safe, stay well, and do not be a piece of cyber driftwood. We’ll talk to you next week and maybe not from the studio, but we’ll certainly be broadcasting. So from all of us, thanks so much and see you next week. Bye bye.