Announcer: [00:00:00] EDGE of the Web, on the road at SMX.
Erin Sparks: [00:00:05] We had a great time at SMX West this year, uh, and we were able to sit down with some thought leaders in our digital marketing space. Huge thanks to Third Door Media who opened the door for EDGE of the Web to be part of that conference. We had a chance to sit down and talk to Sam Ruchlewicz, uh, VP of Digital Strategy and Data Analytics at Warschawski. We covered the Google Partner program changes that had everyone fired up. Give it a watch and a listen.
Announcer: [00:00:29] Your weekly digital marketing trends with industry trendsetting guests. You’re listening and watching EDGE of the Web. Winners of Best Podcast from the Content Marketing Institute for 2017. Hear and see more at EDGEofthewebradio.com. Now, here’s your host, Erin Sparks.
Erin Sparks: [00:00:52] All right, we’re at SMX West 2020, and we’re talking to a number of thought leaders here. And as we wrap up the, uh, this, uh, second day, the final day of SMX, we wanted to grab a hold of Sam Ruchlewicz and talk to him a little bit about what’s going on in the Google Partners world. So, Sam, uh, first and foremost, who, where, where are you working, and what does your company do, first?
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:01:14] Sure. So, I’m Sam. I work for Warschawski, which is a lot of consonants put together. We are a boutique integrated marketing communications agency based in Baltimore, with offices in New York and D.C.
Erin Sparks: [00:01:26] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:01:27] I am Vice President of Strategy and Analytics at Warschawski, so I oversee our Digital Group. I oversee our Analytics Group. We do a number of integrated campaigns [crosstalk 00:01:37] for clients all across the world. So, we’re small but mighty.
Erin Sparks: [00:01:40] And also a [inaudible 00:01:42] Google Premier Partner.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:01:44] We are a Google Partner, not Premier.
Erin Sparks: [00:01:45] Partner. All righty. So, uh, we’ve been talking a lot, a little bit about a particular issue that arose last week. What-
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:01:52] Yes, a little bit.
Erin Sparks: [00:01:53] Yeah, and, uh, there’s, uh, there’s also a, a good deal of, uh, social chatter about this. Google has actually changed some of the requirements to become and retain their Google Partner and Google Partner Pr-, Premier Partner status. And, uh, they actually announced this, I think, last week. We actually did the show about this last week, that, so, they’ve actually done a few things, and I want to get your take on each of these, in particular. All right?
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:02:16] [crosstalk 00:02:17] Let’s do it.
Erin Sparks: [00:02:17] So, they, they actually required that, uh, your spend threshold doubles every 90 day, uh, that your spend requirement is evaluated. And that’s going across all clients, right, that you manage, from 10 thousand dollars to 20 thousand dollars, per 90 days. It’s, um, literally making the, uh, well, uh, I’ll ask you to take, [inaudible 00:02:39] gimme a take on that.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:02:40] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erin Sparks: [00:02:40] So, all of a sudd-, all agencies now have to have 20 thousand dollars spend, uh, over 90 days. What does that do to small agencies?
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:02:48] I mean, I think it doesn’t do much, right?
Erin Sparks: [00:02:50] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:02:50] It’s 20 grand over three months is 6700 bucks a month.
Erin Sparks: [00:02:55] Sure.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:02:56] An agency with just a c-, few even small clients is going to hit that, no problem.
Erin Sparks: [00:02:59] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:00] Um, I do think it, in some ways, is good in that we’re maybe raising the floor a little bit, because there are a number of agencies that have like, two clients-
Erin Sparks: [00:03:07] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:07] -that are Google Partner agencies, and all of a sudden the distinction doesn’t mean anything.
Erin Sparks: [00:03:10] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:10] So, at least this means you’re doing something.
Erin Sparks: [00:03:12] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:12] I think it’s a step in the right direction.
Erin Sparks: [00:03:14] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:14] I mean, I would personally be in favor of raising it much higher, um.
Erin Sparks: [00:03:19] Okay. Well, let me, let me-
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:20] But-
Erin Sparks: [00:03:20] Let me ask you this. For, for, uh, on the, on the principle of insisting that you spend more money with the ad platform, right?
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:29] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erin Sparks: [00:03:30] The ad pl-, platform actually making sure that you’re actually spending more money with them. Isn’t that l-, uh, a little bit, um, a bit more of a, uh, a conflict of interest a-, for the agencies that are, are executing whatever their digital marketing tactics. They’re now, just to keep that badge, they’re actually required to spend more.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:51] I mean, part of it, yes.
Erin Sparks: [00:03:52] [crosstalk 00:03:52].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:52] Part of it’s also, again, I just don’t think it’s-
Erin Sparks: [00:03:54] It’s not much.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:54] It’s so not, it’s not-
Erin Sparks: [00:03:55] [crosstalk 00:03:56].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:56] It’s not much money. Like, I realize, you know, to some people it is a lot of money.
Erin Sparks: [00:03:59] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:03:59] And, and for them, I can understand. But for me, I’m thinking, “Do I want to partner that actually knows the platform?”
Erin Sparks: [00:04:05] Sure.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:04:05] How do you get to know the platform? You get to know the platform by using the platform. You don’t get to know the platform by doing what Google tells you. You don’t get to do the platform by, or get to know the platform by blindly following orders.
Erin Sparks: [00:04:15] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:04:15] You get to do, you know the platform by doing different things and trying different campaigns. And if you just look at the current CPC levels, I mean, you’re really not talking about a lot of clicks. You’re not even talking about a lot of campaigns [crosstalk 00:04:27] necessary to get that.
Erin Sparks: [00:04:28] All right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:04:28] So, my thought is, I want a partner that really understands the platform, and to understand the platform, you gotta be in that platform [crosstalk 00:04:33].
Erin Sparks: [00:04:34] Yeah, [crosstalk 00:04:33].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:04:34] You gotta be using that platform.
Erin Sparks: [00:04:35] Absolutely.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:04:35] And the only way you’re gonna get there, unfortunately or fortunately, is by spending a little bit of money.
Erin Sparks: [00:04:41] Right. Now, okay. I, I, [crosstalk 00:04:43] I’m with you. I’m with you there, but it gets, it gets a little bit more difficult then th-, these next steps.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:04:47] Right.
Erin Sparks: [00:04:47] [crosstalk 00:04:47] So, let me ask you this.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:04:48] [crosstalk 00:04:48] We’re okay with one.
Erin Sparks: [00:04:48] [laughs] Okay with one. The second one is more users need to be certified. [inaudible 00:04:53] having one, at least one cer-, certified ads user will no longer cut it. Ad agencies need to have at least half of the users who have admin or standard access to the manager account to pass the relevant certification test, search display, video and shopping. What do you think about that?
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:05:08] All right, so this is one that I think is, I’m okay with in principle. I actually think this is decent.
Erin Sparks: [00:05:13] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:05:14] Um, I think the implementation is idiotic. So, that’s kind of where I’m at, and I think they’re going to probably work that out.
Erin Sparks: [00:05:19] Okay.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:05:19] So, right now, we’re seeing some clients that we have added the client to that are saying, “Oh, we have to get all these people certified.”
Erin Sparks: [00:05:24] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:05:24] And it’s like, no, there aren’t even, their clients, see as the client accounts, see, this is ours account, this is our domain.
Erin Sparks: [00:05:29] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:05:29] And they’re not getting that right.
Erin Sparks: [00:05:30] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:05:30] Okay. I mean, I, number one, I would take this more seriously if the Google tests were something to be taken seriously.
Erin Sparks: [00:05:38] [laughing]
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:05:39] But the answers are available online, so, I mean-
Erin Sparks: [00:05:42] Yeah, there’s that, isn’t-
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:05:43] Really, this is like, a basic competence check at this point. Like, can you Google things? Like, I mean …
Erin Sparks: [00:05:48] Okay.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:05:49] It, it’s meaningless to me.
Erin Sparks: [00:05:50] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:05:50] And the only part, uh, the part that I would w-, really want to say, and it, you know, what I really think they should be doing is saying, “You know what? For every client account that you manage-
Erin Sparks: [00:05:57] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:05:57] -one person from that client domain needs to be on the account.” Because really, what I’m seeing, and I’ve seen this for a number of clients, where an agency will not give them access to their account. And Google allegedly-
Erin Sparks: [00:06:07] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:06:07] -is on the side of transparency. They want advertisers to have access to their account and to their data. They say that the agencies have to give it, and I have seen, at this point, dozens of agencies that refuse to give it to clients.
Erin Sparks: [00:06:19] [crosstalk 00:06:19].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:06:19] And it’s the clients’ data, so you know what, Google? If you’re really serious about transparency, and you’re really serious-
Erin Sparks: [00:06:23] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:06:23] -about this, and you’re really serious about rewarding agencies who do the right thing and follow the guidelines that actually do benefit the client, then make that the requirement.
Erin Sparks: [00:06:32] There you go. I mean, for the sheer fact, and we’ve hor-, heard horror stories before of not, a-, not so much extortion, but literally just, just not, not, just removing or destroying a client’s ad campaign because that was part of their initial onboarding agreement. This is clients’ IP. This is their information.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:06:49] Yes.
Erin Sparks: [00:06:49] They’re, they’re hiring somebody to maintain their garden, but it is their garden. What, uh, even, whether or not it was originated by them or the actually agency, so you’re absolutely right, is that there’s, there’s a huge factor of, of a broken trust, if there’s continue to be that, that, that [inaudible 00:07:06] agencies out there that are, are doing this. So, you’re absolutely right. That would be a great, uh, a great different tactic for Google to, to, to make. S-, but, so basically, they’re, they’re actually is, uh, saying that there’s going to be … You need to have at least half of your admin team r-, registered. I’m sure they’re going to be able to, to, uh, change that.
[inaudible 00:07:26] and for small, uh, on principle, it is actually also good to make sure that your team are certified, so [crosstalk 00:07:31].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:07:31] Right, like the trained professionals thing.
Erin Sparks: [00:07:32] Absolutely.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:07:33] Like, your account’s being managed by trained professionals.
Erin Sparks: [00:07:35] That’s not a bad thing.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:07:36] Yeah, okay. It’s not.
Erin Sparks: [00:07:37] However, it gets a little bit worse. This is the one that everybody’s just stewing on here. The last point, optima-, optimization score evaluations. So, agencies are now going to have to pay attention to the recommendation step.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:07:49] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erin Sparks: [00:07:49] And to determ-, determine whether an agency is meeting the performance requirements, Google says it will start evaluating the optimization score in your manager account, that’s located in the recommendations tab. Google suggests agencies review recommendations to see the actions you take to improve your importance, now, your performance. So, note that in the Google Ads, uh, uh, UI, it say-, the, the company states, “Dismissing recommendations will not count toward the account optimization requirement.”
So, the recommendations tab kind of, kind of, uh, originated about two, two and a half years ago, when it really started to have some meat to it. Right? And we all know that the, you know, an, [crosstalk 00:08:25] an advertising platform making rec-, recommendations to spend more money, it’s a bit self serving.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:08:29] Just a tad.
Erin Sparks: [00:08:30] [laughs] So, uh, but at the same time, there are some good, uh, recommendations. And the Google Partner Network does have, uh, uh, you know, uh, consultants that actually reach out to their partners and evaluate on c-, you know, quarter after quarter, evaluate some of the, of the companies they’re working for. But actually insisting that you take their recommendations?
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:08:49] Yeah, that’s, uh, like, four ridges too far.
Erin Sparks: [00:08:52] [laughs] All right. Let, uh, let us ask [crosstalk 00:08:55], why, why, [crosstalk 00:08:56] why is this such a critical [crosstalk 00:08:57]?
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:08:57] Yeah, well, I mean, let’s, let’s, let’s talk about this.
Erin Sparks: [00:08:57] Yeah.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:08:58] Like, number one, you know, you’re talking about some thing that’s allegedly supposed to be a meaningful point of difference, right?
Erin Sparks: [00:09:02] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:09:02] You’re taking this thing that is a Google Partner, and we’re saying, “This is the agencies that you should work with,” and Google’s allegedly saying, you know, “Not only does this come with a badge, this comes with access to betas. This comes with-
Erin Sparks: [00:09:14] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:09:14] -additional support req-, resources. This comes with, you know, a number of other benefits and perks.” And we’re saying, “Hey, unless you do what we want-
Erin Sparks: [00:09:22] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:09:22] -we’re taking that away.”
Erin Sparks: [00:09:23] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:09:23] “So, we’re going to hurt your clients.”
Erin Sparks: [00:09:25] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:09:25] And number two, we’re saying, “You know what? We don’t really care about your clients,” because if you actually look at the recommendations, a lot of them don’t make any sense.
Erin Sparks: [00:09:33] Nope.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:09:34] So, now you have, you’re put-, you’re putting an agency who is supposed to be an honest broker here, who is supposed to be as a client, telling me, “I understand this is your goal, Client.”
Erin Sparks: [00:09:43] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:09:44] “Let, here’s how I think you need to allocate your spend, and here’s why,” and a client can make an informed decision. And now, Google’s putting their thumb on the scale and saying, “No, no, no, no, no, no, no.” I know that, you know, as you, Agency, might say, “Hey, I actually, this money might be better spent on Microsoft.”
Erin Sparks: [00:09:56] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:09:56] But no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not anymore. Or hey-
Erin Sparks: [00:10:00] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:10:01] “Hey, Agency, I know that, uh, you know, you think that these keywords are really what works, but we don’t think so. We think you need to add some more broad match keywords up in here.”
Erin Sparks: [00:10:09] Uh, yes.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:10:09] And that’s-
Erin Sparks: [00:10:10] Spend, spend more with us, because-
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:10:10] Yeah, spend more. You know, we think, “Oh, we know you’re having a lot of success with this bidding strategy, but w-, actually, we have this new shiny toy over here-
Erin Sparks: [00:10:17] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:10:17] -that we really need to get some data for. So, guess what your recommendation just became?”
Erin Sparks: [00:10:21] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:10:21] “Give us more data.”
Erin Sparks: [00:10:22] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:10:23] You know, you, it’s, it’s self serving. It’s, like, you know, Milton Friedman would be proud. This is corporate profiteering above all else.
Erin Sparks: [00:10:32] It is, and there was a precursor to this about, about six months ago, or seven months ago. There was, uh, a, uh, bit of a, uh, debacle where Google was actually contacting the domain owners, the actual clients, circumventing the actual admins.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:10:48] Yes.
Erin Sparks: [00:10:49] And then actually communicating, “Hey, you’re not actually using our recommendations,” and pointing out that the, the, the MCC, the a-, agency of record on there, wasn’t actually applying some of these recommendations. And that got a lot of people in hot water. A lot of agencies that were ignoring it deliberately, because they weren’t, those weren’t meeting the guidelines of what they were executing on from a strategy level.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:11:09] Yeah, correct. I mean, we had a few clients, I think, that also had gotten reached out to as well.
Erin Sparks: [00:11:14] Yeah.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:11:14] Um, I mean, [inaudible 00:11:15] I know some of them are in like, regulated spaces-
Erin Sparks: [00:11:17] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:11:17] -where we have some really strict legal approvals, or we have some, you know, terms that-
Erin Sparks: [00:11:21] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:11:22] -we do very specific things, and there are very specific things that we don’t do. And some of the recommendations were to add things that we don’t do, or that we, the, the client, I’m sorry.
Erin Sparks: [00:11:31] Right, right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:11:31] Don’t, doesn’t do.
Erin Sparks: [00:11:32] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:11:32] And [inaudible 00:11:33] not a chance are we gonna add these keywords for a service that we don’t provide.
Erin Sparks: [00:11:36] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:11:36] Or something even worse that could be construed as putting the client in jeopardy, if somebody were to search that term-
Erin Sparks: [00:11:42] Yup.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:11:42] -see the client ad, and then say, “Oh, well you, you’re, you’re claiming that you do this.”
Erin Sparks: [00:11:47] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:11:47] No, we’re not. And we have very specific guidelines. We have very specific approvals, and it’s just …
Erin Sparks: [00:11:53] So, what we’re talking about is an AI that got put, put in place to actually look at, look at the entire campaign and the breakout of di-, different campaigns and ad groups. Look at, at the spin and look at optimization, generic optimization opportunities.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:12:08] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erin Sparks: [00:12:08] That’s what this entire recommendations section [inaudible 00:12:11].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:12:10] Right.
Erin Sparks: [00:12:10] There’s no direct council [inaudible 00:12:12] or consult that’s actually knowing y-, your clients’ business. There’s no human on the other side of this thing.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:12:17] Correct.
Erin Sparks: [00:12:18] And it’s insisting now that you use these recommendations, wholly without context of your clients’ goals or strategy or legal requirements.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:12:27] Yeah, more or less. You basically have Roombas running the show.
Erin Sparks: [00:12:31] [laughs]
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:12:31] Because really, I mean, Google says they’ve got a lot of AI tech, but really at this point, it’s machine learning. It’s a Roomba.
Erin Sparks: [00:12:36] Yup.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:12:37] It’s running around, running itself into tables left, right, and center. I mean, this is not, let’s not pretend like this is the supreme intelligence.
Erin Sparks: [00:12:45] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:12:46] This is a fairly dumb robot.
Erin Sparks: [00:12:48] And it’s learning off of our pain, and, and a-, a-, and the, uh, opportunities that it’s looking for. I mean, literally, if we’re seeing this behavior, this, and [inaudible 00:12:57] was a precursor, now this. We’re seeing Google sidestepping the agency, and on top of that, even removing the agency requirement, or removing the agency, uh, endorsements and tools and, and perks and benefits and training.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:13:11] Yeah.
Erin Sparks: [00:13:11] For its own-
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:13:12] Self serving purpose, yeah.
Erin Sparks: [00:13:13] Okay. Well.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:13:13] Yeah, it’s, it’s definitely unacceptable. I think it’s, it’s a precursor for what’s to come, right?
Erin Sparks: [00:13:18] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:13:19] This is a, I think we had some dangerous precedence. I think this is the first one that I would say is like, “Okay, red flag alert.”
Erin Sparks: [00:13:24] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:13:24] Like, this is, we’ve had some yellow lights. We’ve been, we’ve come real close, if you’re familiar with like, yellow lights analogies. [crosstalk 00:13:31] I’m not sure how global the audience is, but sure. Uh, this is the first one where I’m like, “Okay, you guys are, we have firmly just crossed the line.”
Erin Sparks: [00:13:37] Really, [inaudible 00:13:39] have. And there, and there, there has been a bit of a, uh, dichotomy, th-, th-, in [inaudible 00:13:44]. Google’s really trying to communicate, uh-
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:13:47] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Erin Sparks: [00:13:47] -much more fre- … And, and now, you have PPC, that’s really just mandating-
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:13:52] Yeah.
Erin Sparks: [00:13:53] -a higher level of spend and a higher level of, of attention to what they require.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:13:57] Right. And I mean, I defended Google when the Wall Street Journal wrote what was a piece of hot trash, uh, about SEO-
Erin Sparks: [00:14:03] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:14:03] -from four people that don’t know anything.
Erin Sparks: [00:14:05] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:14:06] Um, and I was the first one to say, “Actually, in this particular case, there’s really nothing to blame Google on. Like, there is legitimate reasons for these things.”
Erin Sparks: [00:14:13] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:14:13] In this case, sorry, friend.
Erin Sparks: [00:14:15] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:14:15] Like, you done wrong. This is bad, and I think it leads to a world where today, it’s this.
Erin Sparks: [00:14:21] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:14:22] But what’s tomorrow? And I think one of the interesting, one of the things that I’m concerned about is, all of a sudden, Google has Google Analytics. They can see exactly who’s coming to your site, and they can see how they’re coming to your site.
Erin Sparks: [00:14:30] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:14:31] So, today recommendations are based only in Google Ads. But how long before they start pulling in some more analytics data and saying, “Hey, we noticed there’s a lot of LinkedIn CPC clicks coming to your site. We noticed there’s a lot of Facebook.”
Erin Sparks: [00:14:41] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:14:41] “Your new recommendation isn’t just to change bid strategy. Your new recommendation is to shift that budget down, because Facebook isn’t as good for you, as we tell you that it’s good for you.”
Erin Sparks: [00:14:50] Yeah.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:14:50] “Because we’re your source of truth on your website.” It’s not that far to go from where you’re at today, telling you how to run your account and how to run your business, how to set keywords.
Erin Sparks: [00:15:00] And marginalize the agency.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:15:01] Correct.
Erin Sparks: [00:15:02] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:15:02] To saying, “You know what? Actually, you don’t need Facebook ever, at all. You don’t need LinkedIn. No, no, no, and you really don’t need Microsoft.”
Erin Sparks: [00:15:09] Or potentially, we just won’t give you the data anymore.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:15:12] Correct. You could also do that.
Erin Sparks: [00:15:14] And just, and just drop the, uh, drop the-
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:15:16] Drop the UTMs into direct [inaudible 00:15:17] it goes, and where it comes out, nobody knows.
Erin Sparks: [00:15:19] [laughs] All right, so, uh, there’s our, uh, prophecy of doom there. [laughs]
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:15:25] Yeah.
Erin Sparks: [00:15:25] Um, so what can an agency do? What can, what can, uh, what can a, uh, domain owner, owner do, a brand do with, with this type of information? Um …
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:15:34] I mean, if you’re an agency, I think it comes, it puts a choice front and center.
Erin Sparks: [00:15:38] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:15:38] And in some ways, I’m actually grateful for it, because you know what? Before, it’s really difficult to explain to clients, like, insidious ways platforms try to take your money.
Erin Sparks: [00:15:45] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:15:46] Or try to do you wrong.
Erin Sparks: [00:15:47] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:15:47] It’s difficult, because a lot of them aren’t marketer. They’re not digital marketers, they’re not in the weeds. And that’s not their fault. It’s just, that’s what they pay you for, an agency.
Erin Sparks: [00:15:54] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:15:54] And it’s difficult to explain some of the nuance, right?
Erin Sparks: [00:15:55] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:15:56] But now, you get to a [inaudible 00:15:57] where this is just blatant, and it’s easy to explain to a client, “Hey, Google wants to run your account to make as much money as possible. Here’s what they’re going to tell you to do, and here’s why it’s bad.” Both business owners can completely understand, this is self serving, and it’s bad.
Erin Sparks: [00:16:10] It really is.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:16:10] So, at that c-, at that rate, I think it allows us to make a meaningful point of difference and say, “No, no, no, no, no.” It’s not just this complicated thing where we’re, we’re still right, technically. But it’s hard to explain.
Erin Sparks: [00:16:20] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:16:20] Here, it’s very easy to make the case to a client, “This is why they’re calling you. This is the problem-
Erin Sparks: [00:16:26] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:16:26] -with what they’re telling you, and this is why, as an a-, as your agency, we’ve been looking out for you and not doing it.”
Erin Sparks: [00:16:32] Hm.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:16:32] I think it puts agencies really to make a choice. Uh, you know, do you care more about Google, or do you care about your clients? And if you care about the clients, then let the badge go.
Erin Sparks: [00:16:40] [crosstalk 00:16:40].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:16:40] It’s not that big of a deal.
Erin Sparks: [00:16:41] But that’s not only the badge, it’s also, like we talk [inaudible 00:16:44], talked about. These are precursors to other potent-, [inaudible 00:16:47], potentialities and, I mean, we gotta look at, is Google the marketplace in which we want to compete? And, and, I mean, h-, h-, you know, it, it’s very difficult to see how, how heavy handed this is. And it could very well be a canary in the coalmine mentality.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:17:01] Right.
Erin Sparks: [00:17:02] Hopefully, it’s something of a, of a, an overstep, an overreach, and hopefully, uh, uh, ad words realizes that there’s other ways to actually go about helping agencies with, with better strategy and spend.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:17:17] Right. You would think. Um, you know, uh, agencies, I think Google has had this weird relationship where ag-, with agencies where they, they don’t realize that agencies are usually their best salespeople.
Erin Sparks: [00:17:26] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:17:26] ‘Cause Google is really bad at selling their stuff. Like, they’re, they’re not very good at it, but they have a great, uh, uh, ad, you know, Google Ads is, is a powerful platform.
Erin Sparks: [00:17:34] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:17:34] It is a very powerful product, and used well, it can generate tremendous returns. Um, but you need the agency to make that case. Those are the people that have the relationship, and it’s not just about ads. It’s not just about social. It’s not just about creative.
Erin Sparks: [00:17:45] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:17:46] It’s, you know, you need somebody that can actually help the client understand how all these different platforms work and how to get them to work for them. And Google’s not very good at that, and Google’s support team or business team is not very good at that.
Erin Sparks: [00:17:57] And you have to a-, have the agency advocacy.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:17:59] Correct.
Erin Sparks: [00:18:00] And if you’re actually going to burn these bi-, these bridges, just for a money grab, and if this is th-, actually the case-
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:18:05] It’s really bad short term [crosstalk 00:18:07].
Erin Sparks: [00:18:07] Yeah, [crosstalk 00:18:07].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:18:07] Because it’s, it’s, it’s not very smart, and it’s, I mean, I’m really hoping this was just somebody being dumb.
Erin Sparks: [00:18:13] [laughs] We hope so, too. Sam, thank you very much for your, your, your insight there. And we’ll certainly, uh, see how everything fares over the course of, uh, months. Hopefully there’s a r-, a reversion on this particular [inaudible 00:18:25] challenge. But, um, recommendations if, uh, you’re deciding not, if you’re an agency deciding to, to pull back on the Google Badge and go a different direction, what are the alternatives?
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:18:34] So, I know Greg Finn-
Erin Sparks: [00:18:35] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:18:35] -uh, has put up a thing called Client.Partners. It’s a quick little badge. It looks very similar, and it says, you know, “We’re never going to sell out our clients [crosstalk 00:18:42] for another, uh, for a badge [crosstalk 00:18:44] any platform.” [crosstalk 00:18:45] That’s an option.
Erin Sparks: [00:18:45] Yeah, he lit on social [crosstalk 00:18:47].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:18:46] Yeah, he did. Yeah, uh, I did a show with Greg on SEJ about this same thing.
Erin Sparks: [00:18:49] That’s right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:18:50] Yeah.
Erin Sparks: [00:18:50] [crosstalk 00:18:52] right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:18:50] So, I think that’s an option. And, uh, the other option is, you know what? Y-, you make a choice and just be honest with your clients [crosstalk 00:18:55] because, you know, your job is to be what I think is an honest broker.
Erin Sparks: [00:18:58] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:18:58] Your job is to give them the best possible advice, and yeah, you know what? You might lose access to a couple betas. Oh, well.
Erin Sparks: [00:19:05] Hm.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:19:05] We can still read about them on SEJ.
Erin Sparks: [00:19:06] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:19:06] You can still check them out on EDGE of the Web Radio, and you can still get some information.
Erin Sparks: [00:19:09] Yeah.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:19:10] But at the end of the day, you have to decide what’s more important to you. Is it a badge? Or is it your integrity, and is it your clients’ profitability, and is it what’s best for your clients? And I think every good agency is going to pick their clients every time.
And you know what? If you’re the kind of company that’s evaluating an agency that has, uh, still has that badge, I hope you look at them with a little bit more, uh, side eye, and say, “You know what? [crosstalk 00:19:29] Hm. Hm.”
Erin Sparks: [00:19:30] Hm. So, you’re saying that the, uh, the, the Google Badge could actually turn into be a scarlet letter, so to speak.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:19:33] Yeah.
Erin Sparks: [00:19:34] Wow.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:19:34] I think, uh, I think we’re-
Erin Sparks: [00:19:35] Scarlet G.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:19:35] [crosstalk 00:19:35] If you keep going, yeah, [inaudible 00:19:37] scarlet G. And it’s, yeah, it’s, that’s where it’s going to go, if-
Erin Sparks: [00:19:40] Wow.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:19:40] ‘Cause if that’s what’s required eventually, it’s, today it’s this, but what happens when it’s-
Erin Sparks: [00:19:44] Yup.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:19:44] -you have to automate every single account. Okay, well, then, what do I even need you for? You know what I mean? Like, it’s, okay. Then it becomes that, and that’s fine. Then we can easily pick out the bad apples. Great.
Erin Sparks: [00:19:53] All right, so, that’s it. Um, watch those badges, and ask, ask your agency.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:19:58] Right.
Erin Sparks: [00:19:58] Or the agency that you’re actually even considering, w-, about this particular issue, because it’s not going to go away.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:04] Right. It’s not.
Erin Sparks: [00:20:04] And something else very well could happen.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:06] And actually, there’s one more thing I just wanted to touch on.
Erin Sparks: [00:20:08] Yeah.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:08] I know Google has mentioned, and they put it in their, the one email they had sent out to the agencies.
Erin Sparks: [00:20:12] Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:12] About increasing your optimization score by 10 points.
Erin Sparks: [00:20:16] Right, right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:17] Increases your conversions by 10%. And they cited their own study on this.
Erin Sparks: [00:20:23] Hm.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:24] Um, but what they don’t cite, the fun things, are, number one, which 10%? Is it the first 10% of my [inaudible 00:20:29], those optimization score, like, adding a conversion goal? They don’t tell you.
Erin Sparks: [00:20:32] Okay.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:33] Or is it the last 90 perc-, from 90 to 100-
Erin Sparks: [00:20:35] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:35] -and taking, you know, an already high performing account toward the really next level?
Erin Sparks: [00:20:38] [crosstalk 00:20:39].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:38] Which is what most performance agencies are trying to do.
Erin Sparks: [00:20:41] Right, [crosstalk 00:20:41].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:41] They don’t tell you that.
Erin Sparks: [00:20:42] [laughs]
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:42] And the other fun thing is, they don’t tell you about how they did it. Is it increasing your budget 50%?
Erin Sparks: [00:20:47] Yes.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:47] An incremental 10%?
Erin Sparks: [00:20:49] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:49] Because if so, that’s like, the dumbest money ever. Like, you could have just, you know, light the money on fire. At least it’ll keep you warm, um.
Erin Sparks: [00:20:55] All they’re saying is just, uh, all they’re saying is just 10 points.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:20:57] It’s just 10 perc-, it’s [crosstalk 00:20:58] 10 points for 10%.
Erin Sparks: [00:21:00] Unbelievable.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:21:00] But it’s not which 10, it’s not how, it’s nothing there. It’s, it’s statistical manipulation at its worst.
Erin Sparks: [00:21:08] Hm.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:21:08] In order to serve their own ends and to justify what is a gross overreach in power. And you know, an exploitation of what is, it’s rent-seeking behavior.
Erin Sparks: [00:21:18] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:21:18] If you’re an economics fan, it’s rent-seeking behavior. It’s bad.
Erin Sparks: [00:21:21] Hm.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:21:21] Don’t do it.
Erin Sparks: [00:21:23] Well, I’m, I’m s-, I’m, I’m hoping that Google and the, the annals of Google actually understand and hear from agencies that [crosstalk 00:21:31] this space, this space is just the wrong space to be in. And there are ethical lines, and as much as we try to describe that to Google and they, they profess these things, that, that [crosstalk 00:21:40] that it needs, it needs to be recalibrated there.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:21:43] Yeah, it’s time. It’s put up or shut up time.
Erin Sparks: [00:21:45] Yeah. I do like the, the, the client advocacy badge. I think that’s a, a great opportunity. Uh, it’s a long time coming, actually. It should be [crosstalk 00:21:52] part of the consumer awareness of agencies.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:21:54] And I think it opens up a lane for-
Erin Sparks: [00:21:56] Yeah.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:21:56] -maybe, uh, a trade-in organization or an industry organization to really come out with a robust certification.
Erin Sparks: [00:22:01] Right, right, right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:01] Something that really does say, “You know what? If you got this badge, then you’re good.”
Erin Sparks: [00:22:04] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:05] I mean, I’m, I’m hoping that-
Erin Sparks: [00:22:06] Hm.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:06] -you know, Greg’s thing is [inaudible 00:22:08] on. I’m hoping that maybe [inaudible 00:22:09] paid search association does something. I’m hoping DAA [crosstalk 00:22:12].
Erin Sparks: [00:22:11] [crosstalk 00:22:12] or something like that.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:12] Yeah, somebody does something that says, “You know what? Here’s actually a certification program. Here’s actually something that, that you, we can stand behind and say, ‘You know what? If you have this, that means that you’re-
Erin Sparks: [00:22:22] So, it’s not just [crosstalk 00:22:23] knowing the platform. It’s also ethical behavior.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:24] Correct.
Erin Sparks: [00:22:25] [crosstalk 00:22:26] of execution for their clients. All right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:26] Yeah, and it’s, it’s committing to be an honest broker. I think that’s, like, what I really like in the financial world is that we have fiduciaries.
Erin Sparks: [00:22:32] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:32] Right? And the fiduciary says that, you know what? And we had the same issue with the banks in 15, 10, 15 years ago.
Erin Sparks: [00:22:38] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:38] Where, you know, your financial advisor was selling you funds that he was getting a commission off of on the backend.
Erin Sparks: [00:22:42] Right, right, right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:42] Right? Um, and the response to that was the fiduciary model, in some ways p-, you know, making that much more prominent and saying, “You know what? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.” If your, if you have this designation, then you are looking out for your clients’ best interest, even if-
Erin Sparks: [00:22:54] Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Even if [crosstalk 00:22:56] loss to you.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:55] [crosstalk 00:22:56] especially if-
Erin Sparks: [00:22:56] Yeah.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:56] Even if it’s a loss to you.
Erin Sparks: [00:22:58] Right.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:22:58] Because that’s really what, that’s what agencies should be, at their best.
Erin Sparks: [00:23:01] Absolutely.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:23:01] And the great agencies are this, 100%. It’s, you’re an advocate for your client. You are there to support their business. You’re there to help them be better.
Erin Sparks: [00:23:08] Hm.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:23:09] Come a mean platform, come Google being a jerk, come Facebook being a jerk, come LinkedIn being a jerk.
Erin Sparks: [00:23:14] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:23:14] You’re there for your client. That’s who’s paying you. That’s whose side you need to be on, and if you’re going to compromise your ethics for-
Erin Sparks: [00:23:21] Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:23:21] -a badge, you’re going to compromise them for a lot of other things, too.
Erin Sparks: [00:23:24] And this is much better [inaudible 00:23:26], it would be much better than a BBB or consumer awareness platform-
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:23:28] Yeah.
Erin Sparks: [00:23:28] -because you’re going to h-, be vetted by [crosstalk 00:23:30] other colleagues.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:23:31] Specialists. Correct. People that actually understand the platform.
Erin Sparks: [00:23:32] Absolutely.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:23:33] I mean, I think it’s, it’s important that we make this transition. And maybe the industry starts to, uh, stop relying on platform-specific certifications.
Erin Sparks: [00:23:39] There you go.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:23:39] Because that’s, again, it’s, it’s the same skewed incentive. It’s just at a different level.
Erin Sparks: [00:23:43] Hm.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:23:44] Right? If Google’s teaching you how to use their platform, they’re going to teach you how to use it the way that y-, they want you to use it, not the way that you actually should use it.
Erin Sparks: [00:23:50] [laughs] All right. So, we don’t want to be [inaudible 00:23:52], assimilated by the Borg. That’s, that’s for darn sure, but it, uh, does, does w-, very well seem like the Borg’s coming after us. So, uh, let, let’s see what they can do to clean up their act but at the same time, we as agencies, we do need to bond together and be able to, to lift each other up. And, and recognize agencies that step away from that, right?
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:24:10] Yeah. And I think it’s, yeah, it’s fine.
Erin Sparks: [00:24:11] Or just advertise on Bing.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:24:13] Or just advertise on Bing.
Erin Sparks: [00:24:15] [laughs] All right, Sam, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:24:17] Great to be, great to see, be here.
Erin Sparks: [00:24:18] Absolutely.
Sam Ruchlewicz: [00:24:18] And thank you.
Erin Sparks: [00:24:18] Absolutely. You’re more than welcome.
